[Strontium]

I'm originally from a deprived area of basically subsistence farming on small holdings, I eat meat and have worked as a chef cooking Vegan and veg and other food. Generally, where i grew up, we'd eat meat as it was part of the balanced system of smallholding where everything you ate came from the piece of land you cultivated and if you got it wrong you, and your family, starved - house had no electricity, water of main sewerage - so even the human waste was used for priceless manure Without an animal such as a pig, sheep or cow you do not have the system of using "waste" vegetable matter and making it into protein and manure - therefore you'll need import things like pulses and fertilizer form elsewhere. That's ok but importing your food is a first world solution and only if you have money can you take part. The is a vast difference between this way of existing and growing vast areas of grain with artificial fertilizers then using that on animal feed lots which is also a first world "solution".
Generally vegan food in does not have everything needed to keep someone alive so supplements are needed, also as a proportion of the base ingredients need to be "imported" it's not really sustainable. Even beloved chickens, like the ones I was given for my 7th birthday, and particularly when used to produce eggs, need supplements and cannot survive just on kitchen scraps and these supplements need to be "imported". Re: Salmon - there was a site about Salmon in PT - try searching "salmo" on "proboards" and looking for the Portugal listing.

 

[John and Cecil]

I'm originally from a deprived area of basically subsistence farming on small holdings, I eat meat and have worked as a chef cooking Vegan and veg and other food. Generally, where i grew up, we'd eat meat as it was part of the balanced system of smallholding where everything you ate came from the piece of land you cultivated and if you got it wrong you, and your family, starved - house had no electricity, water of main sewerage - so even the human waste was used for priceless manure Without an animal such as a pig, sheep or cow you do not have the system of using "waste" vegetable matter and making it into protein and manure - therefore you'll need import things like pulses and fertilizer form elsewhere. That's ok but importing your food is a first world solution and only if you have money can you take part. The is a vast difference between this way of existing and growing vast areas of grain with artificial fertilizers then using that on animal feed lots which is also a first world "solution".
Generally vegan food in does not have everything needed to keep someone alive so supplements are needed, also as a proportion of the base ingredients need to be "imported" it's not really sustainable. Even beloved chickens, like the ones I was given for my 7th birthday, and particularly when used to produce eggs, need supplements and cannot survive just on kitchen scraps and these supplements need to be "imported". Re: Salmon - there was a site about Salmon in PT - try searching "salmo" on "proboards" and looking for the Portugal listing.

That is interesting, thank you. I have been reading about other procedures, although not much as I have several other priorities at the moment. I did read about a man that makes a biocyclic humus soil from olive leaves, etc that supposedly works very well.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand.../lifeandstyle/2019/jan/12/were-humus-sapiens-the-farmers-who-shun-animal-manure

I have looked into human waste composting as well, and supposedly human urine also makes a good fertilizer. Perhaps having animals on a small farm is not such a bad idea though. Animals can help plow and fertilize the field. I can only speak for myself but I have no issues with having animals on a vegan/vegetarian farm (especially rescued farm and domestic animals). My problem is with the mistreatment of animals and the overwhelming sadness that it now brings me. I cannot kill an animal and I cannot allow someone to kill one for me either.

An ego lasts 100 years but the soul is eternal. I just don't need to take out a billion year mortgage against my soul just to eat a hamburger from some American slaughterhouse, a handful of almonds and a kiss from my dog is more than satisfying.

 

[Strontium]

I have an issue with people who eat fish then pontificate about meat (not you), if you have ever seen commercial fishing the animals are crammed in a net and lifted out of the water then dumped on the deck to die by drowning from lack of oxygenated water over their gills, just gulping and gulping till they die. No reasonable farmer lets their animals die like that, my grandfather killed his pig himself as he didn't trust anyone else to. From my Grandad I was given what was alleged to be a human thigh bone (DNA says NO) as a priest to use on any fish if I intend to eat the fish. As for the Guardian - it is illuminating to read some of the things their owners/holding company are/were involved in but in reality that's probably best left for your PhD thesis on left wing journalism. Are you progressing in your small farm quest or is that Covid-19 blocked?

 

[John and Cecil]

I have an issue with people who eat fish then pontificate about meat (not you), if you have ever seen commercial fishing the animals are crammed in a net and lifted out of the water then dumped on the deck to die by drowning from lack of oxygenated water over their gills, just gulping and gulping till they die. No reasonable farmer lets their animals die like that, my grandfather killed his pig himself as he didn't trust anyone else to. From my Grandad I was given what was alleged to be a human thigh bone (DNA says NO) as a priest to use on any fish if I intend to eat the fish. As for the Guardian - it is illuminating to read some of the things their owners/holding company are/were involved in but in reality that's probably best left for your PhD thesis on left wing journalism. Are you progressing in your small farm quest or is that Covid-19 blocked?

Yes, we are still covid blocked and Cecil is ill. I am very worried about him, we are going to the vet tomorrow if his condition does not improve. Spain is opening their borders with everyone but Portugal on June 22 so hopefully we can at least get that far soon. Flying is now out of the question considering Cecil's health so we will be taking ferries as much as possible.

It seems to me that many of the factory farms and commercial fisheries mistreat animals and fish. It is ok to eat animals, I mean we do have teeth specifically for that purpose and those teeth did come from god/nature/universe. It is the "commercial" that is the problem, not the act of fishing or farming in itself. IMO survival is a law of nature, however causing extinction or suffering due to survival goes against the laws of nature.

I do not like the right nor the left. One of the reasons why I left the USA is because of the 2 party system, and that both parties are corrupt right down to their core. There is no way to get the corruption out of the system because both sides want it, at least it is not possible during my lifetime. I am looking to get myself out of the entire system as much as possible, when my life here ends I would like to be able to say that I was not a part of this mess. I just want to live a simple life on a small self sustaining property while shopping at small businesses and avoiding the corporations as much as possible.

I used to watch a television show in the USA named "Little House on the Prairie" staring Michael Landon. That is the life I am looking to find, and the traits of his character are traits that I ire. He was also in "Highway to Heaven", he portrayed another character that I ire even more. If I have learned any lesson at all it is to not worry what other people may say or think of you, just follow your heart and do what you feel is right. When the curtain falls there will only be one critic left.

 

[Strontium]

Ok.

I'll find you and Cecil somewhere in Portugal as I'm also not where I want to be due to circumstances.

 

[mary roxan]

Well, I think being vegan is extreme, so I prefer to be vegetarian, and receive a balance diet, as you said we need fermented food, for this before I go to bed I eat yogurt, regarding salmon, I think it depends on the species, and the amount of energy spent when salmon enter the rivers from the ocean, and how far they have to travel, some species completely die of.

 

[mary roxan]

I'm originally from a deprived area of basically subsistence farming on small holdings, I eat meat and have worked as a chef cooking Vegan and veg and other food. Generally, where i grew up, we'd eat meat as it was part of the balanced system of smallholding where everything you ate came from the piece of land you cultivated and if you got it wrong you, and your family, starved - house had no electricity, water of main sewerage - so even the human waste was used for priceless manure Without an animal such as a pig, sheep or cow you do not have the system of using "waste" vegetable matter and making it into protein and manure - therefore you'll need import things like pulses and fertilizer form elsewhere. That's ok but importing your food is a first world solution and only if you have money can you take part. The is a vast difference between this way of existing and growing vast areas of grain with artificial fertilizers then using that on animal feed lots which is also a first world "solution".
Generally vegan food in does not have everything needed to keep someone alive so supplements are needed, also as a proportion of the base ingredients need to be "imported" it's not really sustainable. Even beloved chickens, like the ones I was given for my 7th birthday, and particularly when used to produce eggs, need supplements and cannot survive just on kitchen scraps and these supplements need to be "imported". Re: Salmon - there was a site about Salmon in PT - try searching "salmo" on "proboards" and looking for the Portugal listing.

Working the land for survival is hard work and many around the world do not survive, it sounds like you have worked very hard in your life and I fully understand farming and the necessity of farm animals, but for my self it suits me to be a vegetarian, regarding chickens it depends on the free-range area and type of landscape and numbers that can greatly reduce supplements in fact if planned properly, kitchen scrapes and the nitrogen from the free-range land can eradicate all supplements.

 

[mary roxan]

I have an issue with people who eat fish then pontificate about meat (not you), if you have ever seen commercial fishing the animals are crammed in a net and lifted out of the water then dumped on the deck to die by drowning from lack of oxygenated water over their gills, just gulping and gulping till they die. No reasonable farmer lets their animals die like that, my grandfather killed his pig himself as he didn't trust anyone else to. From my Grandad I was given what was alleged to be a human thigh bone (DNA says NO) as a priest to use on any fish if I intend to eat the fish. As for the Guardian - it is illuminating to read some of the things their owners/holding company are/were involved in but in reality that's probably best left for your PhD thesis on left wing journalism. Are you progressing in your small farm quest or is that Covid-19 blocked?

The main reason that I am a vegetarian is for health reason, and it suits my body, I agree in dust rial fishing has now become a ruthless business, however for many people around the world it's their only source of nutrition and many people would die without it, I grow a variety of fruit trees and vegetables, and in the future I am thinking about raising chickens.
Portugal start now to open and hear in my part of the Algarve, I have not known anyone that has had COVID-19, and I suppose that I have been lucky as I am able to walk around my land and has not been closed up in an apartments.

 

[John and Cecil]

My plan is to have a small orchard area and then a separate vegetable garden area. I was thinking maybe a dozen or so semi-dwarf self-pollinating fruit and nut trees (apple, orange, pear, almond, etc). Then I would completely fence in the mini orchard and put the chicken coup in with the orchard. The other portion of the property would be a vegetable garden, with a small separately fenced in area with grapes and anything else that is poisonous to dogs.

I have been reading about rescue groups that save chickens from being killed when their laying slows down. They are usually sickly and malnourished from being kept in cages but supposedly they react very well to being adopted and they still lay a fair amount of eggs.

My friend's daughter had a pet chicken, she was very sweet. She would wash her with apple-strawberry scented shampoo and then wrap her up in a blanket and put her on her lap and hand feed her whole apples.

 

[mary roxan]

My plan is to have a small orchard area and then a separate vegetable garden area. I was thinking maybe a dozen or so semi-dwarf self-pollinating fruit and nut trees (apple, orange, pear, almond, etc). Then I would completely fence in the mini orchard and put the chicken coup in with the orchard. The other portion of the property would be a vegetable garden, with a small separately fenced in area with grapes and anything else that is poisonous to dogs.

I have been reading about rescue groups that save chickens from being killed when their laying slows down. They are usually sickly and malnourished from being kept in cages but supposedly they react very well to being adopted and they still lay a fair amount of eggs.

My friend's daughter had a pet chicken, she was very sweet. She would wash her with apple-strawberry scented shampoo and then wrap her up in a blanket and put her on her lap and hand feed her whole apples.

The problem is by using dwarf fruit trees, the chicken will jump up and damage the branches, also picking out the buds and stripping the leaves, it works much better when you fence in an area with established trees people don't realize that chickens can do a lot of damage and yes you would be best to fence in your vegetable area just to be on the safe side, and yes battery chicken farming is a rather cruel practice.

 

[dancebert]

Sardines sardines sardines are all you need when living in Portugal.

I eat them about 3 times a week. One thing you have to watch out for with oily fish is they're high in Omega-3 fatty acids. Too much Omega-3 per day has some nasty side effects.

 

[Tvbl]

Protein is vital for the body, but I cannot boast that I eat meat, because I am a vegetarian. But I found a great alternative to milk protein isolate and this is my first protein powder I've tried. I chose this one based on protein per serving, cost and lack of flavor . I mix it with fruit juices and yoghurt smoothies and can't tell if it's there. It mixes well and does not leave a chalky texture in the smoothie.